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Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

March 7, 2022

Episode Show Notes

It’s time to dive into the Holy Grail of “part threes.” Let’s talk about the Jones boys. Is this one of the best father and son movies? Is this the best part three ever made? How does it compare to Raiders and the sequels? 

Most of all, is this just a fun summer blockbuster, or are there bigger ideas this movie is concerned with? We call us junior because we named the podcast Indiana. 

Pop your popcorn and let’s get ready for chase scenes in every mode of transportation imaginable in this week’s episode of The Meaning Of The Movie.



Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

Rob: Hey there. You who is listening to the podcast right now. Thank you so much for listening. Okay. So something crazy has happened, which is this podcast has somehow made it to the homepage of apple podcast. So I want to thank you to Tim cook and all the people at apple who were involved in making this decision.

Rob: I don't know who made this decision, but it's been great for the podcast. We've found tons of new listeners who are enjoying it. And so thanks for reaching out. Thanks for your reviews. We try to release something every two weeks, but because of so many people are on the podcast right now, I actually had an idea to release something this week.

Rob: And this is an episode that is from our archives, from our vault that we thought would be unreleased because we did a few test episodes early on as we were trying to make this happen. And so we did these test episodes and just wanted to try it out, um, to see what would work and the audio isn't as great as in some of our other episodes.

Rob: But I think the. It's really strong here. So if you like me love this movie, Indiana Jones and the last crusade, then I invite you. Take some time, listen to it, share what you think. If the audio quality bothers you. We have lots of other episodes with better audio, but I think the audio is not too bad here.

Rob: We did some stuff to sweeten it. And most of all, the thoughts and the conversation is a lot of fun and energetic. And so I invite you to check out this episode of the meaning of the movie.

Rob: Hey, everyone. Welcome to our podcast called the meaning of the movie. My name's Rob Stennett and these are my co-hosts Andrew Harman and John Bolin. What's up fellas? What's up Rob? Stennett. 

John: Hey guys. Good to be here. It's going to be fun recording. I think 

Rob: it's going to be super fun because we're dealing with a hall of fame movie for you, John.

Rob: Like, this is probably like when I first met you, like I was a star wars guy. You were the Indiana Jones guy and we're actually like skipping ahead all the way to the part three. But, um, what does Indiana Jones mean to you, John? Like, why were you attracted to it? Why, why did this story like resonate with you so much?

John: Well, first of all, Indiana Jones, and if any, Anna don't register the lost art, the first indie movie was actually the first movie I ever saw in a movie theater. Really? Whoa. So I was, uh, I think 

Rob: when you're 25 or like, 

John: yeah, no, I, uh, yeah, I was 11 years old and my aunt Maya took me to Raiders of the lost Ark.

John: And I just remember sitting in that theater and. I just went to a different place watching, watching that film. And so for an hour and a half, I thought to myself, that's, that's the kind of person that I want to be like, that's the guy, that's the law who was the biggest aha thing for me. So that I don't know the story of the Indiana Jones ethos.

John: The whole idea of that movie is like really deep in who I am. So yeah. I love Indiana Jones as a character, as a film. 

Rob: Yeah. I mean, we've been friends for a long time, John and I can't think of any Anna Jones almost without thinking of you, because I just know how much that story means to you. And my dad is actually my dad's favorite movie as well.

Rob: So those are the two people who I think about what this movie. And so we're doing part three today. Raiders of the lost art comes out 1981. Timble doom comes out in 1984, which is by all counts a dumpster fire. It's actually the movie that. The PG 13 rating, temple of Dunedin, gremlins, because parents were so horrified.

Rob: They're like how this PG and then Lucas and Spielberg didn't want to start it for a long time. And then in 1989, temple of doom or sorry, in 1989, last crusade comes out. And I want to talk about that in a moment, but before we even get that, I'm curious from you guys part threes in general, I think part three is, or where movies go to die, like part threes or were franchises jumped the shark.

Rob: When I say like part three of a movie series, what are you guys thinking? I 

Andrew: mean, I, I love a part three. I don't, I'm so curious. Oh, I, well, it depends on I guess the series, but I think there are so many series where part two can be like in this one where part two is like, what's happening here. And then three comes back and like molds this, like rape finish.

Andrew: Um, 

Rob: I totally disagree. I totally disagree. I think for the most part, like sequels are like, okay, there's something there. And part threes are just like, this is our cash grab. This is when we're going to go and just slap something on the screen and make it happen and get whatever money is still in this cow.

Rob: Like that's what part threes are to me. Like most of them and actually have a exhaustive list, but I think most of them are pretty bad. Um, so I'm curious that you like actually like them. 

Andrew: I have the exact same opinion as you as what you just said there, but with part, 

John: I don't think, I don't think part threes or fours are bad or parties are bad.

John: I here's the thing, some of them's sure there are some part two, three fours, whatever that are poor filmmaking. The, uh, what do you call it? A franchise movie is so important, like from Rocky to jaws, to mad max, to star wars, to Indiana Jones, to Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the rain. Like there's so many, you can't godfather for Cardinal.

John: Are there, are there bad ones in each one of those? Yes. Are there ones that should never have been made without a doubt, but should there be a franchise? Yes, you can. That's like, that's like the volume of work for 

Rob: the story I'm telling you though. Like, when is the last time you watched jaws three? That movie is horrendous.

Rob: When's the last time you watch godfather three, like, it is horrible. Like, like SQL's or something. And then part threes are where like, like mad max three, Rocky three, 

John: uh, toy story three, like some of the best threes right there. And this one right here we're talking about today is one of the best threes.

John: I think. 

Rob: So, let me give you my case of like, I have three lists of part threes and three categories. And the first category is part threes that disgrace the franchise. And I have a list of listed part three, but actually like, oh man, this just makes the franchise totally sad. You ready for my list? Beverly Hills cop three jaws, the Friday, the 13th 3d godfather, three crocodile, Dundee, and LA, have you seen crocodile Dundee in LA?

John: I'm good man. Escalator 

Rob: a scene. Okay. Terminator three rise of the machine matrix, revolutions hangover three Superman three is the worst movie ever made like Superman two is a work of art and Superman three. It craters it. So does. Spider-Man three Spiderman, three little Fockers little Fockers is on my list.

Rob: Doesn't meet the parents part three, uh, that's fair alien three Jurassic park three, and even star wars nine, the rise of Skywalker, like all of those movies, like disgrace the franchise, like they're, they're not good movies. And they act like it's like, okay, maybe there's an okay. Part two, but there's like so many examples of bad part threes.

Rob: Um, well, 

John: no question that part to your point earlier, the part threes are all too often about the money and less about the story. And sometimes the stories like either done and really needs to be wrapped, but there's still money to be made, or it's just bad storytelling because the filmmakers feel the need to have the.

Rob: Yeah. I, I think that's what it is. It's like, it's kind of like a band that like runs out the greatest hits and that's what so many part threes feel like. It's like, okay, we're checking all the boxes, like the greatest hits and that's kind of what it is. And we just want to do that, but it feels like so limp and dead by then.

Rob: I 

Andrew: got to add your list though, Rob, uh, X-Men three, three horrible. X-Men three horrible, 

Rob: good. X-Men two is really good. And X-Men three is just like, I was like, oh no, but don't you don't you? 

John: Well, those who love it when a franchise movie like redeems itself with apart, whatever it is 3, 4, 5 to when they, when they, when they, when they crater and then they resurrect, they, they re cause I think when we're at the one we're talking about today, which I know we're not into yet, but I think three redeemed to in this case.

John: Well, 

Rob: and okay, here's my next. So the first, the first one is disgraced the franchise. My next list is part threes that are better than the sequel. So they're not quite as good as the original, but better than the. Here's my, and maybe, or at least like on par my list is back to the future three diehard three, which I think like I about soft Harper for diehard too.

Rob: But diehard three is really great. Lord of the rings return of the king, Rocky three, which definitely is better than Rocky two. It's got Mr. T it's got whole Colgan. It's just, it's got either tiger, like Rocky three, uh ocean's 13 and nightmare on Elm street. Disagree. Those are my, like, those are my like, ah, they're better than the SQL.

Rob: They're not as good as the original, but at least they're better. 

John: I had mad max. I had mad max three to that list 

Rob: better than road warrior, like road warriors, like the main mad max where like Mel Gibson as the dog and the chains and Kevin costume 

Andrew: and like Thunderdome, 

Rob: right. Thunderdome actually do like mad max three.

Rob: So maybe, maybe that lives in its own category. I don't know. What do you think of those movies better than the sequel? Where am I off? Where am I on? Yeah, I think, I think, 

Andrew: um, the, uh, ocean's trilogy, I totally forgot the ocean's trilogy when I was making my list. Cause that w I would also call that like a true classic trilogy where they made wine then made another then said, Hey, let's make that one in there.

Andrew: All three independent stories. Um, the first one was so dynamite in the way that it did its like heist twist. Um, and I think the second two had no idea what to do with that. And so the first one gives you a twist that's completely out of nowhere and ruins the movie. And then I think ocean's 13, the third one, like has no twist.

Andrew: They just like do a heist and walk away. And so I felt them both were both 12 and 13 were like equally like ma like I kind of walked away from both of them being like, that was fine, I guess. 

Rob: Yeah. And the only reason I G I put that in the list, cause I was like, ah, maybe it's a little better than SQL.

Rob: Cause it kind of went back to Vegas and did some of this. I could never watch that movie again or think about it for the rest of my life and be totally fine.

Rob: What a comment. So then I have, 

John: I had, I had, I had Harry Potter and toy story also as good threes. 

Rob: Well, so here's my final list, which is the best film in the franchise, best film in the franchise, which is here's my list, the good, the bad, and the ugly Harry Potter and the prisoner of Acrobat. And as c'mon sorry, Andrew, I knew you were going to correct me there.

Rob: Uh, Chris, you ready for this one Christmas vacation, which is the third of the national Lampoon's movie toy story three. And the last crusade, I actually think. Is a better film than Raiders of the lost Ark. And I may get my film nerd card, like taken away from me for tape. That's 

John: a, yeah, that's a, that's a steep, uh, ascertation for sure.

John: To put it above Raiders. 

Andrew: Right. I'm a little dumb struck by that. Cause I w I'm going to, as I was watching this last night, I was like, this is fun, but like it's no Raiders, like I could think of well, 

John: but Raiders, I think part of what made Raiders Raiders was, it was first, it was, it was unlike anything that had ever been made before it brought together so many genres of comedy and action.

John: And I mean, it just, it was, it was unique in itself and we'd never seen that before. And then we, and then after Raiders we saw romancing the stone and then eventually we saw, you know, lower crossed, et cetera. But when Raiders came out, it just, there was nothing quite like. Well, it 

Rob: is a like landmark film and like on all the top 100 lists of all times, Raiders is always on there.

Rob: Um, and it meant so much, so I'm probably in the minority for thinking that, um, and, and I probably would flip flop this opinion next week and like, oh no, the Raiders is the best, but I'm going to talk about that later in the podcast of like, why I think this is your best film in the franchise, but, but you know, that's my list.

Rob: Like it's very rare that a part three is better than the SQL or even the best from the franchise. Like almost never happens. And I do think John, what you were saying earlier, part of my case for why this is the best film in the franchise is because it fixes a legacy of like what this franchise means.

Rob: And it like cements it. If, if it would've been, if we would've had Raiders of the lost our. Temple of doom and then kingdom of the crystal skull, if that would have been the third movie, like how do we look at Indiana Jones? Like, what are we even thinking about? So 

John: now we're going to talk about kingdom of the crystals, gall, like talk about you, fix something and then you go, rebreak the thing that you fixed.

Andrew: Well, to me, that's, that's the thing with these like late generation fours, which we're getting right now in the like madness Alger grab. Like we have that with this, we have that, uh, with, uh, like the Bourne trilogy where they do like a four way later creed 

John: and Rocky, I think did a good job of the Ford five or wherever they're at now, where will we be on four?

John: That's a reboot, I guess 

Andrew: that was after Rocky Balboa, which is what I would say would be the like late edition. You know, guys, I grew up and I would actually argue that godfather three is much more like a, um, uh, one of these fours, right? It's in that. Original one too. And then you go 10 years and say, Hey, you remember that thing that people love let's make another one.

Andrew: But I'm curious, like, Rob, you, you asked us like, where does this rank, like, I'm curious what your guys' is ranking of best threes are, is this, 

Rob: so my rankings, my number one is toy story three. I'm sure we'll do an episode on that because I adore that movie. It's probably one of my favorite movies ever.

Rob: This is my number two. And then my number three is probably good, the bad and the ugly. Like, I just think that like that film Clint Eastwood's spaghetti, Western, like you don't really think of it in a part three. Um, but that's really meaningful. One. What, what's your reaction? 

Andrew: That's that's, that's fascinating.

Andrew: Cause I, I feel like good, bad. The ugly is like, like people forget that's a part of a trilogy. Right, right. Uh, um, a few dollars, more dollars physical dollars, right? Like people are like, are those movies like most, unless you're like a film or a Western nerd, they haven't even heard of the first two movies.

Andrew: Um, what's what's yours, John? Like what, where does this fall in your rankings? 

John: I mean, for me, it's probably the, the top three, you know, the top number three. Okay. Um, and toy story three is definitely in the top three of my top three. And. I actually, this is going to get me in trouble at some point, but, but I, I really, uh, returned to the Jedi for me was like, it was an epic and a lot of it had to do with just where I was in life and seeing the theme.

John: I mean, I was, it took me an hour and a half to get to the front of the line outside of the theater before I got into the theater. And it, it just has a place likely Indiana Jones for me at the same thing. So return of the Jedi is definitely up there in the top threes to 

Andrew: me. Yeah, for me returns yet I use my is my number two.

Andrew: So I'm with you robbed toy story three at the top of my list, I was surprised that was it for you because that one I'm so glad that we have to do that as a podcast at some point in life. But for me, um, return to the Jedi is my, my number two when I was a kid, like, that's the one I would put on repeat, like when I had my options as an adult, I look back I'm like, all right, all of the star wars nerds are right.

Andrew: Like empire is probably the best star wars movie, but like. I was not turned off by the like star wars, Muppet Fest. I was like, all of these space Muppets are amazing. And I was all in on it. I freaking loved it. The whole like Java escape capture scene. I mean, I would eat that stuff up. It was, 

Rob: I mean, you guys know me, you know, what star wars means to me.

Rob: And so I I'm all here for the star wars love, like, like bring it on. It was weird for me because I put it in three categories. I had three categories which were one disgrace, a franchise to. Better than the sequel and then three best in the trilogy and empire. I mean, sorry, we're turning the jet. I was none of those categories for me.

Rob: It doesn't do any of that. It's not better than the sequel. It's not the best in the franchise, but it also doesn't disgrace the franchise. I literally had it in its own category where I'm like, I don't know where to talk about this, but it's definitely in, like, if we're just talking in general top three's of all time, like yeah, it's, it's right in there.

Rob: It's in my top five, 

Andrew: something that I think is really interesting. The both toy story and star wars do as far as trilogies is they're all completely separate stories that were written at separate times, but tell a definable arc, right? They're not one long story, like a Lord of the rings. Um, they're all separate quests, separate things, but at, at the end, right, the third, the third movie comes in and like sort of wraps up this saga that you didn't realize for the saga.

Andrew: Um, and I think return the Jedi for me does that so well, um, absolutely indie movie we're actually here to talk about today is really like three completely independent films. And you can kind of watch pretty much any of them without having seen 

Rob: the other ones let's get into. Let's talk about the meaning of the movie.

Rob: I've some categories. First one is what did this movie mean for the filmmakers? And I wanted to talk about a few of them in specifically. One is George Lucas. Is this the last great George Lucas film?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, it's pretty rough 

Rob: after this. Like, like it's crazy to think about like 1989, but it pretty much like falls off a cliff from after 1989. I'm not really sure. Willow. 

Andrew: Did he make 

Rob: Willow after this Willow was before this? Which I love Willow by the way, like, right. Like that's early Val Kilmer that's Workday's yeah, but that's argument to be made for Willow.

Rob: But, yeah, I like it's pretty much a, he, he pretty much then makes a couple of other projects, but his eighties outside of that star wars is really rough. And then his nineties is almost like non-existent until he starts making prequels. Um, and so it's weird. It's like, this is the last good movie that George Lucas did, period, in my opinion, which is pretty amazing considering like who he is and what he did, um, Spielberg, 

Andrew: and he's not just a producer.

Andrew: He has a story credit on. I used to say it's him and another guy. I not remembering it right now. But, um, so he was, you know, not just a sort of consulting, is there enough adventure producer on this thing? Like he really concept of the story, 

Rob: right? He was a huge part. What about Spielberg? Where do you think this ranks and like your Spielberg Canon, or what does this mean 

John: for Spielberg?

John: I mean, I think this was the, this was the, the movie in the franchise that. Catapulted him and cemented him as the guy of that era. I mean, I, I think indie was like, oh, who is this guy? And even the films before that, but, but this was to me, a like, okay, he's not going anywhere. You know, he, he, and so I think it was an important movie in the Spielberg, like going from being, you know, he had a few really important movies.

John: And then this one was like the beginning of his television era and producing, I mean, just really expanding beyond just a few great films. 

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, he was, he was making like two films a year in the nineties, like after this, this is, this comes out in 89. Right. It feels like this is like the final kind of like Lincoln log to cement him.

Andrew: Like you were saying, John is like the ultimate blank check director. Um, like at this point he's not just a flash in the pan. He kind of can now do anything he wants. And it feels like to me, the nineties become then his heyday to do everything from drama to adventure, to, you know, children's movies. Like he just go work wherever he wants to after this.

Andrew: Um, yeah. So he does kind of 

Rob: proven you look at, you, look at as I'm DB, I'm looking at it right now. So he makes jaws, which has like all time, you know, Richard are kicking off, then he makes clothes and encounters. He makes 1941. Then he makes Raiders of the lost Ark. Incredible next year after Raiders of the lost Ark ETE.

Rob: So it's like, okay, he is off. Like, that's a, that's an incredible one-two punch. Then the rest of his eighties. Indiana Jones and the temple of doom, uh, the color of purple, amazing stories, empire, the son, like he doesn't really do after ITI. There's kind of a dry period. Now he's producing a lot. He's doing Goonies.

Rob: He's doing back to the future polder guys. Like he's a producer and all those movies, but they're not directed by him. So it was, it was almost like, does he still have it? Does he still have the magic? And then, 

Andrew: and, um, empire of the sun, they may not be the like fun blockbusters that he's known for, but they're still well-respected movies.

Andrew: Even now. They always kind of his first, his first foray into like, 

Rob: Drama. They were respected movies and still are respect to movies. But when I say Spielberg empire, the sun is not the fruit. Like if I say list all the Spielberg movies and part of the sun is probably like number 15, color purple, which, you know, like those are great and find movies, but it's not like this guy who defined so much of the eighties.

Rob: When you think of eighties movies, you actually think of Spielberg, but a lot of what you think about as what he produced, as much as what he directed, and this is the movie that was like, oh, the Spielberg magic is back. And he even talked about it. He was, you know, going through a dark time during temple of doom.

Rob: So was Lucas. And he's like, man, I just want to get out there and play the greatest hits. Like I want to go out and create like something that people will just love and adore and be all about. And like that's what this movie was. Um, okay. Another person. What about Harrison Ford? What do you think this movie meant for Harrison?

John: I think I'm in for Harrison Ford, what it meant for Spielberg and to a large degree, I think he had done obviously the star wars movies, and then his, his playing Indiana Jones in the first film really cemented him as a Hollywood A-list actor. I think temple of doom, honestly, it was like, everybody was like, okay, that really did help anyone.

John: And then this one last crusade, I think, I think it established him as the it guy, which then of course he went on even more than Spielberg to a large degree to beat the star for the next 10 years in so many films and franchises, you know? 

Rob: Well, what's interesting is this is the last franchise film he stars in.

Rob: So he's like he's Han solo, you know, in that whole run. And then he's Indiana Jones and that whole run. And then he doesn't really like star as the franchise guy. Like he's in great movies. He's in P I guess Patriot games, like all the it's going to sound 

John: like he was a Tom Clancy who was at running Tom Clancy character for awhile.

Rob: Maybe that's not true. I guess when I think here's important franchises. So yeah, he did that, but you know, his nineties are more like Patriot games, air force, one, the fugitive, you know, he's in those kinds of movies 

John: and read that was in there somewhere 

Andrew: just classic Harrison Ford work, 

Rob: which is not. And I'm like the top 35 Harrison Ford movies.

John: That's what it is. He's like, please forget that 

Rob: war. Come on. What is the last time you were with someone like, man, you got, you just want to pop on regarding Henry and see,

Rob: okay. Last guy was Sean Connery. What did this movie mean for him? 

Andrew: Interesting to watch this film and it's especially like he comes in at like what, like the 40 minute mark? Yeah. Like pretty late in the, in the movie. And I was watching this and I was like, when Spielberg and Lucas are contacting, this character was their whole pitch.

Andrew: Like what if James Bond was actually an archeology. Too, because to me, that's what this thing is. Like, he's like, absolutely. He's like the man's man, right. Men want to be him, women want to get with them. Right. Like the, like before you meet Sean Connery, they have like the most bond ish like scene with the lady character, Ruth.

Andrew: I was like, don't be so arrogant. And then they started making out and they sleep together. Right. I love at, I always say, I was like, this is a James Bond movie with a fedora and a web. Um, and then, so to go, and then Sean Connery is, his dad feels like, so like not on the nose, but like this idea of like torch, torch, passing to like the next generation of like manly macho hero, which I think a little bit of questions moving now is somewhat problematic.

Andrew: Um, but it, it feels like there's a Berry you're 

Rob: totally right. Torch pass is like, they were very conscious. It'd be like, sort of picking like, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio. Picking the next young up and comer guy, like, I don't even know who it is right now, or, you know, like, it'd be like Brad Pitt being in a movie if Ryan Gosling, something like that as like, okay, this is the next guy and not in the next guy, but like any Anna Jones is a D James Bond character.

Rob: And they're very conscious of that, even though they're only 12 years apart in age, Sean Connery and Harrison Ford, which is kind of an amazing sort of end Connery didn't want to do it at first because they were so close in age. 

Andrew: Well, they, they do a really good job and I feel like Conrad does a great job to get Ella like playing against type, like every Connery role you see, even when he's older, he's so like manly and brusque and like I'm a boat captain.

Andrew: Like I, you know, and in this, he's got like a silly bucket hat and like the umbrella, like he. Really, really going all in. It was really interesting to see him not play Sean Connery. Right. Whatever the conversation was then to get him on the movie. Like he, he was all in, he bought into it, 

Rob: you know, John, Sean Connery thoughts.

John: What does it mean for Sean Connery? I think it meant that, that it was, uh, that he still had it. He had the pat factor, he had the ability to draw people. He was still a leading man. You know, it wasn't really just Harrison Ford with Sean Connery. It did feel like the two of them were, were leading the slate together.

John: So, um, and I 

Andrew: don't know what it comes alive when the two of them get together. Like you see the whole yes. 

John: Yeah. So I think they tried to do in crystal skull with, uh, with, uh, Sheila booth. It just didn't happen, you know, but each child Shiloh, buff, 

Rob: he is not going to be the next Sean Connery. I don't think.

Rob: Um, although, 

John: oh, I didn't that, that chemistry didn't did I try to, it felt like they tried to make that kid like match that chemistry that we had in this movie. And it just, it just fell flat, but here it just, it works. The chemistry there works in every way, 

Rob: you know, we've never seen Harrison Ford play against someone like that.

Rob: And I think that's what makes this movie so poignant meaningful to me is this is a powerful father son story, I think. And I saw this movie with my dad 1989 with theater, and I was starting to be conscious of like, oh my dad and who he is and like what he is as a person, but like Sean Connery, what, like, I think every young guy in the theater, like Sean Connery was that bad figure and kind of like, I think so many, I think a generation of men like process to their own dad through Sean Connery and through that relationship, like I think that's how powerful and poignant it was.

Rob: Um, And so, but, but I'm going to talk about that more. I'm stepping on my own category a little bit. Um, what does this mean? What does this mean to the audience and critics

Andrew: and a hush fell over the crowd? 

Rob: Well, I'm curious, like, um, a couple of things. One I can tell you for an audience level, this was the second biggest movie of 1989. It was, um, Batman that's the same summer that Batman comes out lethal weapon two. And, uh, last crusade, like those are the movies that everyone's talking about that summer.

Rob: And those are the movies that made all the money that year. And so audiences widely, like this movie is universally beloved. Um, I'm curious, John, do you have, uh, uh, rotten tomatoes score? 

John: I do. Let's go to rotten tomatoes first. Tell me what you think the, um, critic score was for this what's the critic score.

Rob: I'm going to say 93%. I'm gonna say 

Andrew: 82. 

John: So I guess I split the difference there with the two of you. The actual score was 88 for the critics is 89. So it was, 

Andrew: it is an 80, 88. Well, what do you think the 12% is that predicts? Didn't didn't like, 

Rob: there's some just to being a part three, you know, like it's hard for critics just to really, you know, not be into it or maybe it's a little too.

Rob: It is a little goofy and funny, but I think if you watch Raiders of lost are, there's a lot of goofy, funny stuff in that as well. Like, and so that's for sure, like what's baked in the franchise, but you know, critics can be curmudgeony and maybe that's what they picked. 

Andrew: I do think that is so much of what this franchise is, is like, cause I was trying to find the meaning of the movie as I was watching this.

Andrew: And I was like, this movie is just fun. Like it's almost mission impossible style in the sense of like, we're just here to have a good time. Don't think about it too much. 


Rob: do think there's a lot to that and. But I think the reason that this one matters more or is like the best film in the franchise is because I'm going to jump into this now.

Rob: Uh, I think it's because this is a movie about father, son. It's one of the most influential father, son, movies ever. And you see the way these two guys were like going back and forth and that relationship like makes it come to life. And Harrison Ford never really has someone who he acts against, like Sean Connery.

Rob: There's re like, I can't think of another performance like Harrison Ford when he's in a movie like mark Hamill is not going to out shine. Harrison Ford, you know, like the robots in blade runner, aren't going outside. The little boy in witness is not going to outshine them. Like Tommy Lee Jones, like yeah.

Rob: Is good, but he's in. Two scenes of Tommy Lee Jones in the fugitive. Like there's very few times where someone's actually against Harrison Ford and makes him sharper and makes him better. And so like that sort of idea was so charming and so meaningful, um, that I think it really pops. It really makes this movie come to life.

Rob: And that's why it resonated with me so much. The other reason I love this movie and I think it's so meaningful is because the reason Raiders lost are falls apart for me a little bit is once they capture like Harrison Ford has that big bazooka and then they capture him. And then the last 20 minutes is just him tied up with Marin on a post.

Rob: And they're like, what do we do? We close our eyes. And then everyone melts. It's kind of, it's such a great. But the ending really falls flat for me and Reyers lost arc. Every time I watch it, like the last 10 minutes, I'm like, I can turn it off, skip it over the last 15 minutes of this movie from the moment Sean Connery has shot that last 15 minutes are incredible.

Rob: And I think, I think the third act is the hardest thing to do in a movies. And so I'm like, man, I'm so locked into this third act in a way that Reyers lost art kind of fizzles for me a little bit. And so those that relationship and that third act is why I'm like, this is a really punchy, powerful movie.

Rob: And why do you think it's the best one in the franchise? 

Andrew: I certainly have a whole lot more to do at the end. I mean the face, the face melting in front of the Ark of the covenant is like top 10, most iconic moments in cinema. So I've, I've, I've a hard time with 

Rob: that, but, but the scene is not that great.

Rob: You're not feeling in the scene, like, like it's a great meme and it's a great gift, but you're just like, it's literally like with storytelling, like, it doesn't do anything. It's like, okay, you're just going to be tied up against this pole. And then he's like, ah, close your eyes. Why? I don't know. God doesn't like Nazis.

Rob: And then everyone melts like, like it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. Story-wise it's not motivated. It's not character driven. It just kind of. Oh, we got to end this thing. Act of God, go light. Like that's how I feel. Watson. The last celebration, which 

Andrew: Spielberg is notorious for ending his movies with an act of God.

Andrew: I drastic park. You could name a whole 

Rob: bunch, right? And this is such a big step forward for Spielberg, which is like, Hey, I'm given a character driven moment to actually for a young man to save his dad. Like if you, like, I think every man wants to do that. Every man wants to be like, okay, I'm going to be the one.

Rob: And if my dad really needs me, there's going to be a day where I'm going to reach out and save him and help him. And the last 15 minutes of this movie are like, emotionally, like, am I on an island here? Do I have to like, defend this? Like I think the last 15 minutes or so gripping when he's there bleeding to death.

Rob: And it's like, I've got to say my dad. I'm like, that's meaningful. Like not in a like philosophical way, but just in a basic human way while there's 

John: so much. I mean, if we're going there, there is so much in that. Once you're in the, they call it the, the, uh, what is that? The cavern of the Crescent moon or the, what was that the value of the Crescent valley of the Crescent moon once they're in that, that whole sequence there it's some of my favorite moments in any indie franchise is the, the, the, the three booby traps he has to go through, but which is fun.

John: And then, and then the, when he gets into the room and they have to pick the chalice, you have chosen poorly is one of my favorite lines of any indie movie ever love it. And it's just so great. Like my, my family still jokes about that. So great. So the guy that, the guy before him, that his face melts, which again is just a repeat of essentially Raiders, right?

John: That's that moment. 

Andrew: And there are so many repeats and readers in this movie, but I was surprised at how I would clock it and be like, I don't care though. This is still great. It's playing the greatest hits in a way that like, I, I know they're doing it and I don't care. Like I love it, which is really hard to do.

Andrew: So 

Rob: the other thing we haven't talked about, which is the whole opening of the movie. I also think this is in my top 10 openings of all time, river, Phoenix, who was going to be the next Harrison Ford. Like he's the guy and they're playing all these jokes that are totally dependent on you knowing the character they're playing the joke.

Rob: Like he jumps on the horse and he misses the horse. They're playing the joke of, he falls in the snake pit. They're playing the joke of, he takes the whip and doesn't know how to use it. Like all these jokes work so well. And I'm like, this is what a part three should be, which is actually like building on its own mythology to kind of like do something different and fun, but it's still enjoyable.

Rob: And I, I thought like it's playing the greatest hits, but not just playing with them. It's actually expanding a character and doing new, interesting, different things rather than just repeating the greatest 

Andrew: hits that opening. I was watching it and thinking like how. Much faith. Do you have to have in your character, not your actor, right?

Andrew: Cause this is a Harrison Ford led branch, right? This is not what it is down. Harrison Ford. Right? So to open the first 15 minutes of the movie I looked at at the runtime 15 minutes without Harrison Ford on screen is like, we believe in this character enough that we know we are going to do almost the entire first act of this movie.

Andrew: That's a great 

John: point, Andrew, 

Andrew: with, without showing Harrison Ford, without Paris support in the movie. And th that, that kind of blew my mind and then how, how engaging it was. And they do like all the things that now I hate the prequels do, like, this is how he got his hat. This is how he got the whip. This is how he got it.

Andrew: Loved it. Like I watch him pre-call I don't want to, I don't care. Like stop telling me all of that. I don't care, but like, this was so. 

Rob: Well, that was never done before, like this. 

John: So inherited here is an interesting thing. This is not a little Trivian moment, but, but this is a Jones moment is I don't know if you knew, but between Raiders and the last crusade, there was a young Indiana Jones television show.

John: That's true. That ran and, and it was, it was, it was good. I like it as a kid because it was anything Indiana Jones, but it was horrible. And didn't do in a whole season of young Indiana Jones, what the movie did in those first 20 minutes or whatever, 15, 15 minutes. I mean, it, it really was. Indiana Jones.

John: Filmmaking, not to me. I know I'm jumping ahead here, Rob a little bit, but I felt like the scene right after this and the boat was one of the scenes that I might, we don't even, we don't need that. Now we can go from the, the young Indiana Jones moment to the university, into the story without having to have this second boat scene.

John: Because basically that, I felt like the young Indiana Jones scene did everything we needed to get into the story. 

Rob: I feel like they had a cool idea for a shot, which was like a match cut of his hat goes down. He comes up and they're like, oh, what do we do? We'll put them on a boat. You find some blows up whatever.

Rob: Like I do agree that whole five minutes. I was like, checking my watch. I was like, okay, I get it. He's on a boat. It's gonna blow up the end. 

Andrew: But what I mean, RI river Phoenix is like, performance is more like Harrison Ford in 15 minutes. Then I hate to say this, but the entire movie of solo, you know, Oh, great point there he's he's, he's not impersonating Harrison Ford, but his specific kind of charm, like he he's bodies.

Andrew: It is so Harrison Ford that like, um, what else? Like, what about that kind of storytelling though? Because you're right. It does set the stage for where we're going in, in this movie in such an engaging way. Um, John, like, what is it specifically about that that worked so well that like, from storytelling ones?

John: I mean, I just think all the little pieces and especially if you're a fan boy, like I, I was, and I still am, like, it just checked all the boxes and, and it did it in such a fun way. And it was so campy. I mean the whole film, I don't know if you watched it, but like the giraffes sticking out of the top of the train are so obviously fake and you don't, you just buy it, the little flags flowing and there's so many cars, so much intentional campiness, and you just love it, you know, from the, the guy with the, that's the sort of the model of the pre-idea Jones, that the, the, you know, the guy in the beginning with the leather jacket and a hat that gives him the hat.

John: I mean, the whole thing, this belongs in a museum, all the moments are there. And I don't know, it just the it, you know, and you said, Andrew, I don't know if this makes a difference, but this, and I think the nine ish, the, the Berlin wall I think, was just coming and there's a lot of like right. Angsty in the world and we just, we need it right now, too in our society as it, in time in history.

John: But people wanted to just laugh and smile and get just like immersed in an adventure. And it did that in every way. So 

Rob: the thing. It makes this movie so meaningful is that Indiana Jones is human in a way that he's not in Raiders, lost art Raiders lost our key, always does the thing. He's superhuman. He's almost like a superhero here.

Rob: He does like miss the horse. He does have a dad and he wants his dad to accept him. Like he has an arc in a way, like Raiders of the lost Ark. There is no arc, there's an arc of the covenant, but there is no character arc. And this movie there actually, I would argue is a character arc, particularly for him and his dad.

Rob: He needs to like make things right with his dad. And that's what this whole movie is about of like this dad who was always distant. He was always more into archeology than he was his own son. And I think Indiana Jones, the character is asking him. Those same questions, 

John: showing that character development of Indi that, that the scene where the girl reaches down for the cup and, and indie drops her hand at the end there.

John: And then we have that exact same scene. Then a minute later, we're in these, in the hole. And he chooses, you know, that, that, to me, that, that, that shows his character arc moving was he grabs his dad's hand, you know, where the museum is not the most important thing just to 

Andrew: stick with that opening sequence, because I think it's so fascinating because a little bit longer, I was getting really strong.

Andrew: Like I know where a bunch of lost fans in this crew. I was getting really strong, like Sawyer vibes from, from this idea that like the man that he models his entire adult personality off of is actually like a villain in quotes in his trial. Right. 

John: It's actually not, it's actually not as dad. It's not modeling his life after 

Andrew: his dad.

Andrew: Right. It's like he, he sees this guy. He wants to be, but with like one tweak, he's like, I'm going to be this guy, but I'm going to put it in the museum. But this, this, this guy was like an antagonist to him as well as being a role model. And I think that the convergence of that, of those two things at him, actually, you realizing that he's like modeled everything he's doing off of this bad guy in his childhood is like really interesting to me.

Andrew: I'm like, okay, like, how did you get here? Well, even 

Rob: later on, like once he's in the professor scene, he's. Archeology isn't about like chasing after stuff, has it, like he says all this stuff, which we know that's exactly what our cardiology is to him. And then he even says, you know, X never, ever marks the spot and they pay that off.

Rob: Like so great. And so he's even like, it's almost like Indiana Jones is the side of him. That's like, okay, it's a little bit of a pirate. It is a little bit of the bad side. It is a little bit of the like, okay, I've got to be, that's what it takes to actually win the treasurer is to be that. Totally. Um, so what was the most meaningful scene to you?

Rob: John? Was it that scene with Elsa reaching down and Sean Connery and all that sort of stuff. What was your most meaningful scene? 

John: You know, It's funny because now that we're talking about it, um, um, there's a number of scenes that popped through my head. What I originally wrote down in my answer to that question was it doesn't need to have a meaningful scene.

John: It's an Indiana Jones movie. That's really what I, what I have in my notes, which is what Andrew said in the beginning. And I mean, honestly, to a large degree, like, there's not that I wish I could say there's this. Like, I felt like it was with Titanic last week. There was like, it's obvious. Like if we can find that scene, sure.

John: I was kind of hunting for the like, okay, what's that meaningful scene? And there's a few quotes and quips and maybe that's the moment for me. That's the most meaningful, um, the dad moment of, oh, that would be it. But really, I didn't think there was a scene that was like, oh my gosh, grip, my heart meaningful.

John: And the movie was still good, which is what makes it great to me. 

Rob: Andrew, do you have one? You will. 

Andrew: Um, I, I. The thing that John just said that seen the reason for the cup, right? It's like one of the most iconic things. And I was like waiting for that scene and in this, in this movie and when it happened, I was so confused somatically about why that was the moment, the idea of Sean Connery, reaching down and being like, you have to let go, like Sean Connery has been obsessed with this his whole life.

Andrew: He hasn't let go of it. We haven't seen him unless he like found peace while he was shot. Like, it seemed like this weird reversal of like, this is what it all means of like indie learn from like, oh, he has to embrace. Like, I was like, like his relationship with family and it's not all about archeology.

Andrew: And I was like, nothing in this movie has been pointing at this. And so it felt like kind of an empty resolution, like maybe a lack of hubris, a lack of pride, all of these villains die because of they're like, oh, I know everything. And. I dunno, maybe I miss something I want to ask you guys. Cause I know that's supposed to be a really meaningful moment.

Andrew: And when I go watch this time, I thought it was pretty empty and not actually connected to 

Rob: the story at all. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't my most meaningful scene, but it was like a, Hey, the, what the Nazis are doing is they're going after this stuff has treasure and out of like getting it for some sort of greater good.

Rob: And for them it's like the quest is, you know, the journey is more important than the destination, right? Like the quest of like looking for something and finding something like, that's it, it's just kind of that, like, it's almost like finding big foot. It's like I found Bigfoot now you don't need to take them home and like make them your pet.

Rob: Like you can just know that big foot exists. Like I think for him, it was just like the validation of that. And then seeing like for Sean Connery, you have to think about this through the whole movie, which was like, he's actually seeing a side of archeology that he's never seen before. He's seen burning of books.

Rob: He's seeing, going to war. He's seeing Nazi. Here's some for Indiana Jones, like has kind of dealt with that his whole life for Sean Connery's character. It's like, I've never seen any of that. And I'm seeing all this devastation, it's like enough, it's time to stop. We found the thing. Don't stop tasting the thing to your own destruction.

Rob: Like let it go. And even when they leave the temple, like what he asked Sean con like literally asked the question, like, what's the meaning? He's like, what did you find in there? And what is Sean Connery says, he's like, I found enlightenment. And so he's sort of illumination. And so he's like, he's like I realized, like what, what was most important to me?

Rob: And there's all sorts of like interpretations. Like I interpreted that like indie you're the most important thing. And then they go to ask him some for the same question. Like, what did you find in there? And then he's like, before he can answer solid jumps in like junior, your name's junior. And then he's like, I named the dog, you know, all that stuff happens.

Rob: And Harrison Ford, Indiana Jones never gets to give his answer to that question. But I thought that was a big thesis of the movie, which was like, again, this. Every man, like not to get really deep in the deep end, but like men podcasts all about right. I mean, I think so men for the most part are all about the quest, right?

Rob: Like we're, we're driven more for the quest than we are. Even the people around us. Like our careers are, can be so much more important than our family or that sort of thing. And I thought this was a movie that kind of makes the basic argument, which is like, this is two guys who should have been talking to each other who weren't talking to each other and living each other.

Rob: There were, they were like facing in different directions chasing, you know, people from 800 years ago, like instead of like talking to each other. And that's why my most meaningful scene was the scene in the dribble where he's like, dad, you never talked to me. And then his dad says you left. Okay. Now, just as you were getting interesting and he's like, well, what did you want to talk about?

Rob: Let's talk. And he's like, well, I don't know that whole exchange. I'm like had conversations like that with my dad. And I w I was sitting there like, okay, that's what the heart of this movie is that little exchange right there. Like, that's what it's all about. And yeah, it's fun. And there's not a lot of like crying and I'm so sorry, but just those like awkward moments of like a father and son trying to understand each other.

Rob: That's what the heart of this film is. And that's why I think it's so powerful. 

Andrew: I feel like I would just like, in that moment with like him hanging on the cliff, like waiting for the cup, I wish they'd just like rewrote the dialogue, everything the same moment, but have like Harrison Ford, like in DB, like it's right there.

Andrew: I can get it. I can get it for you. Right? Like, this is what your life has all been about. I can, I can reach it. I can get it for you. And, and to have his dad said, but we found it. We found it together. Now let go, right? Like just something like that, but all the dads as is you just need to let go. And I was like, eh, what is this?

Andrew: Like some Buddhist thing? And like, I don't under what, um, but I, I do think you're right, Rob. I think that is like the meaning, but I think in like all of the hi-jinks, I wasn't necessarily fully tracking with that. Um, because that, that is, I think what is so connecting about this movie to like fathers and sons, is this idea of like, even when you think you should sit down and like, oh, let's talk kind of a heart to heart.

Andrew: You're like, ah, I don't, what are we going to talk about? Let's I don't know, let's go bowling. Right? Like you, oftentimes you connect over the activity. And so these two men connecting over this passion of their lives is actually the like really spiritually connecting thing for them. 

John: Absolutely. I think, I think a lot of, a lot of the quest type movies and that's a right its own category, whether it's a Lord of the rings or Indiana Jones, it's not about the quest.

John: It's not about obviously the cup or the arc or the. What was the temple of doom thing? 

Andrew: I don't know, out 

John: of his chest. I remember they were looking for something. What was the remember? 

Rob: They were just trying to survive, man stuff got real down. 

Andrew: He ate some crazy alive snake stuffs. I think. I don't know. 

John: Uh, but, but I think all the quests are, are, are just about, it's about finding something that's not, not the thing.

John: It's not, it's not the object of your desire. It's the other thing. That's always what it is. Right? So in this case it was the, what was lost was the relationship with his father. And that's what was found, not the cup. And I think maybe in the first movie, it was a relationship maybe with the girl or with, I don't know what that was in, in, in Raiders, but certainly in this one, it was a lost relationship that was then kind of found in some, in some way through their adventure together.

John: And 

Andrew: I would say this is probably the most meaningful of the three, even though I would argue, I might like Raiders more. Um, just as far as like a fun watch, um, uh, yeah, like, I, I don't even know if there is like a meaning, you know, Raiders is very James Bondy, right? Like not a lot of bro, 

John: but it could be in Raiders.

John: What it might be is there's a few times in the movie where, where, where Indiana Jones character sort of doesn't acknowledge that there's anything out there in terms of mystery or the supernatural or whatever it was. And by the end, he has to come to the conclusion there's things. He can't quite like, maybe that's what happens is that's what he discovers.

John: I don't know. But, but certainly in this one, it's the father something. 

Rob: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do think, you know, and again, what is the ultimate like meaning, or what's the one sentence who really knows, like, I think part of what, why like this podcast and like talking about these things is like, what makes us moving meaningful?

Rob: You know, like that's sort of it and like again, that Sean Connery performance is so great. Um, what about least meaningful scene? Is there a, is there a scene that really like the traction from the movie or like took you out of it as far as like, meaning? Yeah. 

Andrew: For, for me, um, the, uh, the scene where they go and get the notebook from Berlin, I felt like that whole sequence was just like, what if indie met Hitler?

Andrew: That was the pitch. And then they just tried to shoe horn it in middle of the movie. And it's kind of funny when like he signs the notebook, but like it's, it's Hitler, right? Like it's so jarring, I thought. And then his whole interaction with Elsa there is like really not okay. It pushes the like man's man thing to like a really misogynistic point where I was like, this is problematic.

Andrew: Like he grabs him by the neck and he's like, all I have to do is squeeze. And you're like, good Lord, like backing down indie. Like that's really. Um, and so I was like, I can kind of do without this whole moment, I kind of don't need it. And it was just to get the book back and it felt like they were just like, well, we have Nazis.

Andrew: What if Indy met Hitler? That'd be fun. And so they kind of take a whole left turn for 15 minutes to do it. And I didn't think 

Rob: it mattered. It does feel like that, that moment I can tell you in the theater, like real time that got like the biggest laugh of the movie. And I was like, it's so crazy to, and he signs the thing when he signs it.

Rob: I mean, it, I remember sitting in a theater and just, and actually I went and saw it in the theater. In downtown Austin, they did a revival showing of it. That's part of the reason I wanted to talk about it. Cause I was like, oh, I want to go see it. So it's on a out theater and again, like got a huge laugh and it's weird to get like a laugh from Hitler.

Rob: Like now with Jojo rabbit, like that's, you know, a little bit more about like, um, it, it was such a moment in the theater, but I do agree. It was almost like a site guy. Like I really liked that whole sequence, like at least the Nazis and seeing the heart of it. And like, just because it's so powerful, you're like, oh, the meaning that I put in that is you're like, oh yeah, these guys are evil and these guys are villains and this is not just like, oh, they're whatever.

Rob: Like, it kind of reminds you of how dark they are. And it is interesting that four years later Spielberg would, who is Jewish would go on and make Schindler's list, you know, like, and size. I wondered actually, while I was watching it, like, is this the scene that sort of inspired like really going down or like maybe actually should finally make that movie about the Holocaust.

Rob: And so I couldn't help, but thinking about that, watching. Yeah. 

Andrew: And I think all of that, all of that is a fair point. Um, I think I was more jarred by his reaction to, to Elsa cause like he's always been a little rough around the edges, but it was so like problematically misogynistic, which I know it's like 30 years, 40 years ago, however long it was.

Andrew: Um, but like to a point where I was like, this is, this is, uh, this is like a problem. 

Rob: It may not, 

Andrew: not feel, feel gross about what, what he was doing. Yeah. It 

Rob: was arc and unnecessary and would never make it through now. And it was like, oh man, that's that's a lot. Um, John, did you have a least meaningful? 

John: You know, I didn't,

John: I watched it thinking, what would I take out? And maybe if the boat scene that I talked about earlier, because I didn't think you totally needed it, but, but when you mentioned that transitional scene of the hat, that that is, that's a great, I mean, I'd almost create that scene just for that moment too. So maybe that's why they have it there.

John: They could have just 

Andrew: done a shorter, like it's like a five minute sequence. 

John: Yes. It definitely could have been shorter. Um, and I, it was surprising to me that there were so many chase scenes in this I forgotten, like I thought there was a little more drama, a little more like puzzling and figuring things out.

John: And there was just. Like 90% riding horses and tanks and motorboats and escaping narrow escapes. And it was almost to the point where, oh, go, okay. Okay. Now really another one. And it just kept happening, which, you know, I love that it's Indiana Jones. That's what you expect. 

Andrew: It really is set these to set fees, to set pieces.

Andrew: That 

John: that's exactly what it was. It was one after another. 

Rob: Um, it 

John: was, it was the greatest headset and it wasn't, it was bringing back all of the set pieces from the other movies, almost. It felt like the horse thing and the tank thing and all that and the boats. Um, and then I couldn't help thinking to myself, like how in the world is Harrison Ford at 81 years old going to do anything?

John: Like I, he did so much of his own practical stunt work in that. And he had a side guy, but a lot of that he did himself, which he's notorious for. How's he going to do that? Next indie movie. I'm imagining it'll be like, she'll be the Sean Connery. And this girl daughter figure will be the next upcoming Indiana Jones, which I think Andrew, to your point, they definitely want to do that.

John: You know, they, they want to have the next Indiana Jones be Indiana at or whatever you call it. 

Andrew: Well, it just to sort of look at like this movies treatment of women, I thought it was interesting based on Raiders. How good of a character, what's her name? Marianne, Marianne, Marianne, Marianne. Um, how great of a character she is.

Andrew: She's like a princess layup style. Like I'm not going to take your lip very strong and not just cause she can drink guys under the table, but like she's doing her own thing and she's not dependent on indie and how hard of a left turn they make on temple of doom with the love interest in that. And then even this one, like, oh, she's a doctor, but she pretty much is going to spend the entire movies.

Rob: Um, and being a villain, she's always like, oh, but I'm really, you know, I'm really villainous and oh, but I'm sweet, but I'm billing as soon. It was just like, yeah, she was really thin. I, if I was picking like least meaningful character, she was pretty much it, which is sad because she was kind of the representation of women.

Rob: Like she was the only, you know, woman character in the movie. And I was like, ah, 

Andrew: there's no marriage. It seems odd that it went in that direction. Like they did such a good job at the beginning of the series. And then they were like, oh, nevermind. 

Rob: Did you guys have a most meaningful character, a character that really jumped out to you and were like, oh, this this character I find so much meaning in, 

John: I think for me it might be Indiana Jones.

Andrew: What? Say 

John: more? No, I mean, I mean, obviously that, uh, that think, and I mean, Sean Connery's character certainly made the movie, right. So it's the two of them together. Um, one of the two. I mean in these India. And I thought, I thought he was a top of his game, his Indiana Jones game in this movie, he was fun. He was witty.

John: He was a to your point, Rob, more deeply emotional. And there's more of a, more of a character arc. I mean, he's, he's, he was the character for sure. For 

Andrew: me. What do you think grub? 

Rob: I, I think Sean Connery is just, again for sure Ford, but he just brought such a wrinkle. And the moment the movie that actually made me emotional is when he's in the tank and he flies off the cliff and everyone's looking there and Sean Connery had just close upon him and he's like, there's so many things.

Rob: I didn't say like five minutes, what I could have said in five minutes. And he said, and I, I felt it like, even as a dad, as a man, it's like all those things that you just don't say that you're like, okay, I think I could have said them, you know, like, and so his performance not like that's what again, gave the movies, such weight in depth.

Rob: Yeah, that 

Andrew: sort of side character for me, that surprised me. I mean, it's like one moment. So it's not the full, full character, the like guardian of the grail when they're in the boats and they're about to get chopped up and he's like fine with it. And he's like, my, like my soul is at peace. Can you say the same about yours?

Andrew: Like India trying to threaten them, like tell you what I want to know, or I'm gonna chop your head off things like that's, that's fine. And like the piece of like, I know that holding this information is more important than me. Um, and just that level of calm and like assuredness in like your life's purpose to me, I was like, oh, I definitely don't have that.

Andrew: And then to see, be like, Nope, I don't either. And like stop and jump off the boat. Um, to me that was like sort of a, that's 

Rob: a great call. Yeah. He was 

Andrew: a meaningful, a meaningful moment from a very minor character, but really kind of. 

Rob: Yeah, he was so meaningful in the movie and just his presence and, and it also gave this mythos of like the holy grail in searching for the holy grail and, you know, like of all artifacts to ever search, like, yeah, the Ark of the covenant is something, but you look at history and it is like for whatever reason, the holy grail is the holy grail of searches.

Rob: And so having that character actually like leveled it up another whole notch of like, oh, wow, there's this whole society. That's here to protect it. And that's part of the reason it was never found. I thought that was so great. Um, okay. Any other thoughts that you guys have on the meaning of the movie?

Rob: Anything that we didn't cover discuss? 

John: No. Rob, on that one, thought I just had, it was on that scene that you just pointed out with, with, uh, uh, hair, um, Sean Connery, looking over the edge of the cliff, you know, that's what they do over and over again. And Indiana Jones is as soon as you think there might be.

John: The opportunity for a little deeper like development, they ripped the rug out from under you had happened in the, in the, in the, uh, the dirigible when they were up in the, with that scene where he says, well, now's the time and they don't go there. They just, they never go there. And then on the edge of the cliff, and then of course, Harrison Ford comes up behind him and looks down, which is a great scene.

John: But, but that moment that he doesn't let you go there. And even in the end, they never, I, you know, you, you brought up that point is they ask Sean Connery. Meaning is, and he gives it and then Harrison Ford never gets to give the meeting and then they go on from there. So I don't know. That's, that's part of it, I think, is they want to keep you, 

Andrew: and I think 

Rob: that's what, you know, like kind of what you guys are arguing, which is what makes this movie so charming is it's not preachy.

Rob: It's not overly serious. It's not overly like sacramental of like, oh, this is a deep, meaningful thing that we have. It's like, not like Spielberg would say, like, I want to people to have fun at the movie theater. I wanted them to enjoy it, but I'm like, I don't know. I watched this movie and I'm like, I think there's something more here.

Rob: And again, where going back to the trilogy thing, like this thing in a trilogy in and of itself is like such the perfect end capper. I mean, literally the last shot of the movie is these guys riding off into the sunset and I'm like, why did you ruin this? Why did you ruin it? Why did you touch it again? It would have been like an all-time Mike Trop sort of way to end a series with that.

Rob: And I was just like, Part threes to me, so rarely land the plane. And so really rarely tell a meaningful story that this one that like elevates everything around. It elevates the mythos. And that's why I think it's worth watching. That's why I think it's worth talking about there it is. All right. Well on that, that is our episode on last crusade.

Rob: Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to subscribe on wherever you get your podcasts and we will see you next time on the meaning of the movie.

John: So before we go, I've got to ask you guys, what do you think about a five? 

Rob: Well on 

John: Indiana Jones, five, which is they say in pre-production now they say it's with the gal from that Fleabag TV show is the protagonist is the, is the female. Oh, you think, what do you think about which I think could be really interesting.

John: I love her. She's 

Rob: awesome. Yeah. She's 

John: just so quirky and fun and could really 

Rob: bridge that's right. 

John: That's who it is. Yeah. So what do you think about it? I mean, is that a bad idea? Good idea. It should ch is that horrible? Like, 

Rob: well, this is probably SAC religious, but if Spielberg was directing it, I would be out.

Rob: Like, I'd be like, I don't even want to see it. And Spielberg's my guy. Like, he may be my favorite director ever. That's a whole different conversation, but Spielberg is my guy, but still I'm like, you've had your time. You've had your shot, James isn't Mangold. Andrew is that, is that, um, he did, you know, this movie called identity with John Cusack that I love like a horror movie set in there.

Rob: Uh, and then his claim to fame is Logan with, uh, the, the X-Men, you know, Hugh Jackman. Patrick's it's an incredible talk about. 

Andrew: I mean, that's a meeting of the movie movie right there. Yeah. 

Rob: That is talk about like the character that you left and then revisit years and years and years later, that's such a perfect example.

Rob: And it is a, it is a mic drop of how powerful and poignant it is. And so what he does with that story, I'm like, man, if he can tap into this Logan sort of vibe, like I'm going to go into the ethos of the character, but find something totally new and something totally different than no one else has found before.

Rob: Like that gives me hope. And that's why I'll be there opening night. 

Andrew: I feel like it can't do worse than for, just to be cynical. Right? Like four was four was trying to do something so wonderful of like visiting all the best of the trilogy. Right. They bring Marion back. They tried to a father son thing.

Andrew: They've got the like dad's friend played by John hurt. Right? This this time around, it's like all of these great, like, remember when let's go on one last ride together and bring the best of, and do this fun thing, which I really liked that idea. And it just fumbles so hard that like, none of it's good that like, at this point, I'm kind of like, yeah, let's like, let's give it a shot.

Andrew: Like we can't do worse. So like either either five, four, and five, we can just completely ignore or maybe it'll like, bring it back and make the additions worth it. You know, 

Rob: part four is it was disappointing movie in a theater ever, by the way, the movie ended. And I sat there and I was like, did that just have.

Rob: Where am I? I mean, I, 

John: I felt like I feel every Nebraska Cornhusker watching that movie, I just thought, how far have we gone? Like, why, why, why, how did we do this? This, we had everything we had the, so I'm hopeful. I mean, I do kind of feel like with Indiana Jones, I, it's not the kind of a franchise that I want to see die.

John: I want the character to live on. Like, I would love for them to James Bond. Indiana Jones. Any, which I, maybe that SAC religious to say, because I do love Harrison Ford, but, but here are some Ford is to me he's not Indiana Jones anymore. He just isn't, he can't be no w I mean, you know how I feel about the movies, but I I'm, I'm excited about the idea of there being a new generation of Indiana Jones or Joan set or whatever she is.

Andrew: Jones is the last name. You don't have 

John: to put a no for my, but for my kids to watch and enjoy and for a new generation of filmmakers to make that's exciting to me. I think that that's 

Rob: cool. There's been so many carbon copies of this movie. Nothing else has gotten near to the magic of it. There's been no other like adventure.

Rob: Yeah. It's like, oh, this an Indiana Jones type of movie, but I can't like national treasure. Like I can't think of another movie. You're the mummy 

John: measure? The mummy, try Laura Croft tried romancing. The stone tried even the jungle cruise. I heard it's horrible and tried. Um, it's 

Andrew: not horrible. It's just basically someone picked up the script for pirates of the Caribbean and said, what if we put this in the jungle and added the rock to no, it's not terrible.

Rob: That is what it is. But it's such a falloff unit, like as great as Indiana Jones is. And as much as inspired so many other things, there's like nothing even close in the same ballpark. And so that's why I'm like, okay man, if someone else can figure this out, like I like let's keep trying. Cause like you said, Andrew, you're playing with house money now.

Rob: Cause you wrecked it so bad. 

Andrew: Exactly. Right. Like we can either say just watch the original trilogy or we can say, oh yeah, like it's worth it to get to five, like, or you can do. 

Rob: It's up in the air. I'm hoping, I'm hoping it will have what star Trek had, which was like every other one was good. Maybe this will be like another good one, Sandy.

Rob: There it is.

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